Bombshell dropped today!! Advice urgently required

[George1958]

Good evening

All was going well, or so I thought until I took a call in the late afternoon from solicitors in Edinburgh. I live and work in Scotland.

It seems they went to court to raise proceedings against me, and that sherrif officers will be serving the papers as soon as possible. I still have to get that legal bit right in my head.

This has been raised over a business overdraft from the bank that Fred the Shred used to run, I signed a personal guarantee for that overdraft, the total amount including charges is almost £31K.

The reason for me thinking that all was going well, was the fact that I pay CCCS over £500 per month in a debt management Plan to pay my creditors (there are only two) and of this amount over £400 is paid to the bank for repayment of the overdraft. This debt management Plan is now in month 4 or 5, I can't remember exactly at the moment.

I tried phoning the CCCS for advice also, but they closed at 6 pm.

What can I do, or what should I be doing??

Kind regards

G

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello G!

Firstly, keep off the Telephone, as it is very hard to keep a track of what is said, and then build it into your Defence.

If someone uses the Phone, it will be because they want to put pressure on you in a very unaccountable way.

They may not be Solicitors, as many DCAs pretend they are, just because they have one or two tame Lawyers working for them.

I'm not familiar with the Scottish System, but it sounds like they have started a Claim. The Court should send you details of that soon, if not, call the Court ASAP, and ask if they know about any of this.

If a Claim arrives, then we can take things from there.

The key to understand is the phone call was designed to spook you. Not yet clear why, but most Lawyers tend to just send the papers, they don't usually call to have a toot as they do so. Something odd about that I feel.

The best you can do now is wait to see what turns up, and chase the Court if you want to find out sooner.

Beware of DCA tricks, as this all sounds a bit fishy. It could just be a DCA trying to load some pressure on you, for a reason that may become clear when they make their next move.

One thing I can say, is the Scottish System comes across as being a bit old fashioned, but has many benefits. From what I know of it, it tends to be more plodding and methodical, and there are key steps that have to be followed on the way to the full Court hearing. Papers and legal points have to be raised well ahead, so this can work in your favour.

Keep us all posted, and I'm sure you'll get all the help needed.

Cheers,
BRW

[George1958]

Good evening BRW

Thanks for your reply, it was good to read your post.

At the moment I feel as though I'm doing all I can do, but need to involve the CCCS first thing tomorrow.

I honestly can't believe the deep doo-doo I'm in, and basically all because of misplaced trust in a former business partner.

The solicitors have said they have written to me two weeks ago, but I haven't received that letter, so I asked for a copy which they say they are going to send on.

Now that the juices are flowing the solicitor also said that they had enclosed a "means" form for income and expenditure, that's what I went through with CCCS to come up with over £400/month repayment to the bank.

I'll take your advice and contact the court, although I've a feeling the Sherriff will get me first.

Where can I buy some really cheap lucky white heather?

Regards

g

[George1958]

Evening All

There is enough information in my threads for the financial institution to identify me, but that couldn't be helped as I needed to get as much information onto my thread as possible so fellow caggers could offer advice and support.

Why is it almost everytime I look at my thread there is also a guest viewing?

I know it seems I am getting paranoid about it all, but honestly I couldn't give a jott, if there are snoopers then they obviously have a job to do, probably a job others don't want to do.

Later I will be attaching a letter I am intending to send to the institution, hopefully someone can peruse it, and give me go/nogo advices?

Keep well and strong fellow caggers

Regards

G

[maroondevo52]

No guests on it now George

[havinastella]

George, even if it went to Court, any SANE Judge would not expect you to pay more than the £400 a month you are already paying.

[George1958]

Many thanks for the replies "MaroonDevo" and "Havingastella"

This is the first I've been able to log back on to CAG due to work and family illnesses, not swine flu as I have a special oink-ment for that!!

Anyway, as just stated Ive logged on and there's the guest viewing, suppose that's what we get in a free country.

Getting back to my oringinal bombshell things have moved up a gear,I've drafted a letter to send on to the solicitors and the text is below.

Is someone able to take a look at the text and tell me if I'm just making a rod for my own back, I really don't want to ignore the solicitors, but i don't want to appear thick either.

In a weird way Im looking forward to it going to court, and just finding out how they are going to get blood from a stone.

I have no assets, no cash in the bank, and the house is in negative equity.

Lucky white heather anyone??

Dear Sir

Thank you for you letter dated 30 July 2009 which I received today, Monday 03 August 2009, the content of the letter is acknowledged and I now find it necessary to seek further advices.

My recent discussion with your XXXX XXXXXXXX can be left for later, however my disappointment remains as I requested details about your complaints procedure to be forwarded to me.

Please be aware I have written to your client on 06 July 2009 stating that the account is in dispute for the following summary of reasons.

1) In my opinion the manner in which the overdraft was managed by your client did not protect my interests.
2) In my opinion the charges applied to the account can be deemed to be disproportionate and unfair.
3) Clarification on the word “underhand” verbally used by one of the recent business managers to describe the methods of the business manager who provided the overdraft facilities.

I have also written to your client on 30 July 2009 requiring them to comply with my request as stated in the previous letter, and reminding them that since the account is in dispute they are not permitted to take any action against that account, that also includes any actions that affect my credit rating, and passing the account to a third party.

Further, I have a debt management Plan to repay this overdraft which is administered by the Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS). The current monthly repayment is over £400.

It is my right to withhold payment whilst the account remains in dispute, however at present I have every intention of continuing to make repayment.

By entering into a debt management Plan administered by the CCCS, I am of the opinion that I am showing myself willing to make repayment. These repayments are causing financial hardship and stress in my domestic situation, but repayments via the CCCS will continue.

Finally, please ensure that all correspondence is made via mail to my above address, any attempt to communicate by any other medium will be recorded and logged.


Yours faithfully,







XXXX XXXXXXXX

[seriously fed up]

I cant see it doing any harm George.
But going back to BRW's post, I would absolutely agree with him that the whole thing is a bit fishy and designed to put you on edge. Besides the factors that BRW has identified - solicitors dont usually phone for instance - I think its odd that they would say the Sheriff Officers were going to serve Court papers. Sheriff Officers dont serve Court papers - one day there will be a ring at your door and the postman will be standing there with them, waiting for a signature. Or at least that is my understanding |(and experience).
Of course Sheriff Officers would be bad news IF the case had gone through court and an order made against you. But even then as Havinastella points out, a Court would take a measured view of your ability to pay. But Sheriff Officers is a buzz word that suppresses our critical faculties and we just respond emotionally (ie we c**p ourselves).
This sounds like what happened to me with Amex just over a year ago. The guy even admitted that he was from a DCA, but it was the bit about "your card is being actioned tomorrow". Now I would just tell him to go away and behave himself, but then - not knowing anything at all - I had visions of Sheriff Officers backed by battalions of police, marching up the garden path the next day. Complete rubbish of course - but it got me to pay up on an account that Amex hadnt even bothered to sign the agreement for too!
As I have said elsewhere - remember this isnt about right/wrong or legal or not, its about bringing money in as best they can.
One other thing - check out the solicitors on google or somewhere and see what comes up. You might just learn something.
Good luck

[George1958]

Dear All

I'm now back on line after being tied up elswhere, but was still able to deal with the solicitor via letter. However I'm now tempting fate by saying things have went a bit quiet on the solicitor front.

It may be because I responded in the same terse language used in their letters asking them to remind their client of obligations they have under the CCA and the Data Protection Act.

But, in my most pessimistic of moods I think they are just sharpening bayonets ready for the order to charge.

But then again, in my most optimistic of moods I've blunted their bayonets once, so I'm quite sure I can do it again. Willpower, it's all down to willpower (and a good dose of support from CAG).

Again, sorry for being off line for so long.

Regards

G

[IdaInFife]

Hiya,

Are you saying you sent a cca request for the overdraft?

if so then it won't do much good as overdrafts are exempt


ida x

[George1958]

Originally Posted by IdaInFife

Hiya,

Are you saying you sent a cca request for the overdraft?

if so then it won't do much good as overdrafts are exempt


ida x

Good afternoon IDA

All I tried to do was to fend off their approaches, I could inject a bit of drama and say to fend off their attacks.

I had guessed that overdrafts would be exempt from a credit agreement request, and I have a suspicion that businesses may be exempt from the Consumer Credit Act (CCA) as well, however since the bank is recovering sums due in respect to a Guarantee Obligation, I am of the opinion that makes me a consumer now with rights under the CCA and the Data Protection Act, that is the main thrust of my argument.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but it certainly quitened things down.

Regards

G

[mkb]

Have you actually received any court papers yet?

If not, then I would be tempted to just carry on as you are with your dmp & ignore any further communications from this solicitor/DCA.

End of the day, you are paying what you can (& it's not a sum that most of us on here could make!) and any judge would see that.

[George1958]

Originally Posted by mkb

Have you actually received any court papers yet?

If not, then I would be tempted to just carry on as you are with your dmp & ignore any further communications from this solicitor/DCA.

End of the day, you are paying what you can (& it's not a sum that most of us on here could make!) and any judge would see that.

Hi MKB

I've not had any court papers yet, but I keep thinking it's only a matter of time.

I'm at the maximum what I can pay, and I'm working like a dog to make sure I pay on time every month.

At the end of the day I know I've spent money I borrowed and that I need to pay it back.

Regards

G

[mkb]

Check with the CCCS whether the creditor accepted your proposal as well because if they did, then surely that would also go in your favour with the judge if it ever gets to court i.e. you entered the dmp & the creditor accepted it then the issuing of court proceedings would be seen as being unfair, unless you were in arrears with the payments to CCCS thus the OC.

[George1958]

Originally Posted by mkb

Check with the CCCS whether the creditor accepted your proposal as well because if they did, then surely that would also go in your favour with the judge if it ever gets to court i.e. you entered the dmp & the creditor accepted it then the issuing of court proceedings would be seen as being unfair, unless you were in arrears with the payments to CCCS thus the OC.

Hi MKB

Your post prompted me to look into my CCCS file, I have nothing there to say that this creditor has rejected my dmp.

I suppose that since I was in month 4 of my DMP before the solicitors got involved then by default the creditor has accepted any proposal put forward to them.

All payments are upto date, just.

Regards

G

[mkb]

CCCS will pay them whether or not they have accepted your proposal but most creditors confirm that this has been accepted but you might not always be informed of this so I think you should speak to CCCS to

a) ask if your proposal had been accepted
b) if no response to your proposal, ask CCCS to confirm with OC
c) tell them about these calls
d) if £500 is too much of a stretch, whether you can re-negotiate your dmp

[George1958]

Originally Posted by mkb

CCCS will pay them whether or not they have accepted your proposal but most creditors confirm that this has been accepted but you might not always be informed of this so I think you should speak to CCCS to

a) ask if your proposal had been accepted
b) if no response to your proposal, ask CCCS to confirm with OC
c) tell them about these calls
d) if £500 is too much of a stretch, whether you can re-negotiate your dmp

I phoned CCCS today, and they will continue paying even if the creditor rejects the dmp, however I asked what would happen at the end of the DMP and CCCS said that the debt was "done and dusted".

There is a process running up to the end of the DMP which is managed by CCCS on my behalf, so I feel a bit easier. However, I still have a worry that the creditors will come back for interest due over the time-span of the DMP. That worry can wait for now, all I have to do is keep trying to make my payments.

Regards

G

[mkb]

George I'm glad you're feeling a bit better about all this

Did you tell CCCS that you're finding it really tough to meet this amount?
Has the interest been frozen?
How long will the dmp take to clear?

Sorry for all the questions but you need to know the answers to them to get peace of mind

[George1958]

Originally Posted by mkb

George I'm glad you're feeling a bit better about all this

Did you tell CCCS that you're finding it really tough to meet this amount?
Has the interest been frozen?
How long will the dmp take to clear?

Sorry for all the questions but you need to know the answers to them to get peace of mind

Hi MKB

I'm due for a review before the next payment, and I'm going to mention it then.
With refernce to the interest CCCS have stated that the interest is frozen and the debt will be cleared at the end of the term put forward by CCCS.
The term of the dmp is 6 years, it's a long time I know but compared to a secured loan it makes sound economic sense.

When I went to CCCS the creditors were really starting to turn the heat up and I thought I had left it all too late, but CCCS came through for me.

After CCCS my attention was brought to CAG, and after reading some threads I bit the bullet and posted a couple of threads. I must admit thought that hitting the "Submit Thread" button for the first time filled me with dread. Soon the encouragement from other CAG members started being posted on my threads.

I am no longer paddleless in s***creek.

I would encourage anyone who has debt problems to contact CCCS who will take up the fight for you, and should any guest be reading this I recommend you become a member of CAG which will give you the confidence to fight back and tell creditors to get a dose of reality and stop being silly.

The love of my life brought both CCCS and CAG to my attention and gave me encouragement to contact both organisations, without her I would still be dreading every bit of post that arrived and waiting for the doorbell to ring.

Regards

G

[mkb]

Well done!

Like you, I am so glad to have found CAG. The thing that amazes me is the depth of knowledge of the members & the willingness to share this knowledge with anyone who needs it - and all for a little click of the scales & hopefully, a donation to the site for the greater good.

Fully agree about the 1st time of pressing the submit button - it's terrifying and you think everyone is going to judge you for your mistakes which were made in innocence but then find out that this is totally not the case